It appears to me that some doubt Mrs. White's counsel as coming from God. Either she is a prophet and her writings should be followed or she isn't and all of her writings should be tossed out. It really is as simple as that. However, I also realize that in order to bypass that logic that some are now saying that NT prophets are some how less authoritative than OT prophets. Just another ingenious way to cause doubt.
Stan, do you actually think that it is not necessary to overcome sin, and we can just keep on sinning and wait for Jesus to come, and after He comes He will miraculously cause us to not sin anymore? That sounds like a "sin and be saved" theology. (25) Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave Himself for it;I am not able to even in my wildest imaginings believe that a person will be able to go through that period and at the same time indulge in his favorite cherished sins unforgiven and with a guilty conscience, and yet be saved. "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I overcame and am set down with my Father on His throne. (Rev. 3:21)
It appears to me that some doubt Mrs. White's counsel as coming from God. Either she is a prophet and her writings should be followed or she isn't and all of her writings should be tossed out. It really is as simple as that.
Has it occurred to you that this is not speaking about teeth gritting, sinless perfection and flawless behavior...
Unfortunately Jim it is not that cut and dried despite what the conservatives and former SDAs would like us to think. Willie White, AG Daniells, WW Prescott, Edward Heppenstall, Fritz Guy, George Knight, Graeme Bradford, Arthur Patrick and Samuele Bacchiocchi among many have shown that this mentality is the WRONG way to view inspiration and Sister White. Many scholars outside Adventism agree that the gift of prophecy WAS different from the OT to the NT.The all or nothing approach hasn't worked as the fruits of cultic mentality and bitter anti-SDA/EGW diatribe throughout the years has shown.sorry Larry...back on topic.
Just a few more points regarding what true righteousness means.Jesus was asked by a pharisee in Matthew 22:35-40:35Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 36Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38This is the first and great commandment. 39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. ------------------------------------------I find it fascinating that Jesus didn't quote from the Decalogue. Instead he quoted from Deuteronomy 6:55And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. and from Leviticus 19:18:but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------How many of us truly love the Lord with all our hearts and all our minds, and with all of our souls? This is what it means to be perfect.Then Jesus introduced a new commandment in John 13:34,35:34A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. 35By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another----------------------------------It is so easy to focus on external rules such as abstaining from meats and cola drinks, but miss what is really important.Think about what our Lord is commanding. We are to love each other with such a sacrifical love to equal the way in which Christ loved us and gave Himself for us.This is what it means to achieve sinless perfection, and I welcome anyone to step forward and claim that they are about to reach this standard before Christ comes. This is what it means to reflect the righteousness of Christ perfectly.Stan
gui,You sound angry in this post. What is wrong? Start a new thread and come forward with your beliefs and why you believe such rather than jumping in here and there and confusing the rest of us.
Concrete, I passed no judgment. You made it clear what you think of EGW. I don't understand how you can "prove all things" in regards to Ellen White if you never read what she wrote. What you do with the Spirit of Prophecy is between you and God so long as you comply with the rules of this forum. We all need to keep this on a kind and courteous level. Please avoid making provoking statements.
Sorry newbie. I'm not trying to sound angry in this post. I have talked about this before but unfortunately, the mods in the past have a job to do and have felt that this was too divisive. Topics have become locked or posts deleted. I don't want to put Larry and others in positions where they feel they need to start sanctioning and deleting as this does cause hard feelings.I don't feel like I'm being angry but this topic does frustrate me. I have seen the fruits of both sides and they are confusing and tearing apart the church and have for many years. Our youth today have chosen to treat EGW like an absentee relative that shows up every now and then because they are confused by the so many different sides and arguments both for and against her. They'd rather abandon her if they are not given some sort of middle ground. When faced with an 'all or nothing' approach, sadly, many of them would rather choose 'nothing' just like our former-Adventist brothers and sisters.And it frustrates me that this middle ground is ridiculed, ignored and slandered by both sides when it needs to be heard. AG Daniells and the rest of the 1919 GC committee felt the same way and pretty much prophesied the situation we are in today because it has not been properly addressed and dealt with.
It almost sounds like you are saying we don't have to obey the law because the two principles that Jesus gave makes us more righteous than the law requires, and which lifts us above the mere Ten Commandments. It is a kind of righteousness by forensic transcendence that saves us.
Please Larry, would you kindly point out the phrase above where I said we didn't have to obey the law? I can't believe you construed my post this way. Why would Jesus not go to the Decalogue when asked what the greatest commandment in the law was? The Decalogue is where we start in obeying God, but Jesus was simply pointing out that true righteousness goes far beyond. It seems Larry you are reading things in my posts that are not there, or not intended, and you are not answering many of the issues I did raise.I wonder if we all were talking face to face, rather in print, if we would come up with the same impressions.However, this thread is quite interesting to read and this discussion is helpful.Stan
It seems that the word "perfect" has always been problematic in the discussion of sin. I don't know Greek or Hebrew, but I have read that our our Western concept of perfection is derived from ancient Greek philosophy which defines their word for perfect as meaning ultimate flawlessness. That was not part of the Hebrew mind set. The Bible writers, most of whom were Jews, held to the Hebrew meaning of perfection which means something that is mature, finished, or complete in its development. I think that is consistent with what the pastor has posted.
