May someday regret it

[Richard OFfill]

A church that decides to employ the methods used by large, popular Sunday-keeping mega-churches often weakens its commitment to the mission and doctrines of the world church. The conferences that invite ‘experts’ from the large Sunday churches to speak to our ministers meetings may well someday regret it.

Many of the largest mega-churches have two characteristics in common.  First, they tend to be congregational in governance.  That means that the local congregation owns and operates the church.  Second, the mega-churches are for the most part doctrinly generic.  It is difficult to adapt the church growth methods of these churches without having some of their perspectives on church governance and their de-emphasis of doctrine rubbing off on us.  This influence could become fatal to the mission and mandate of our church.

[Ed Sutton]

  It is difficult to adapt for our use the church growth methods of these churches without having some of their perspectives on church governance and their de-emphasis of doctrine rubbing off on us.  This influence could become fatal to the mission and mandate of our church.   

   

That made me think that Satan's attack is multi leveled like a 3D chess game, so I went to SOP to find out about some of Satan's diversionary tactics.

I saw that God has honest children among the nominal Adventists and the fallen churches, and before the plagues shall be poured out, ministers and people will be called out from these churches and will gladly receive the truth. Satan knows this; and before the loud cry of the third angel is given, he raises an excitement in these religious bodies, that those who have rejected the truth may think that God is with them. He hopes to deceive the honest and lead them to think that God is still working for the churches. But the light will shine, and all who are honest will leave the fallen churches, and take their stand with the remnant. {EW 261.1}


   I saw that God has honest children among the nominal Adventists and the fallen churches, and before the plagues shall be poured out, ministers and people will be called out from these churches and will gladly receive the truth. Satan knows this; and before the loud cry of the third angel is given, he raises an excitement in these religious bodies, that those who have rejected the truth may think that God is with them.--EW 261 (1858).  {LDE 158.1} 
     Before the final visitation of God's judgments upon the earth there will be among the people of the Lord such a revival of primitive godliness as has not been witnessed since apostolic times. . . . The enemy of souls desires to hinder this work, and before the time for such a movement shall come, he will endeavor to prevent it by introducing a counterfeit. In those churches which he can bring under his deceptive power, he will make it appear that God's special blessing is poured out; there will be manifest what is thought to be great religious interest. . . .  {LDE 158.2} 
     There is an emotional excitement, a mingling of the true with the false, that is well adapted to mislead. Yet none need be deceived. In the light of God's Word it is not difficult to determine the nature of these movements. Wherever men neglect the testimony of the Bible, turning away from those plain, soul-testing truths which require self-denial and renunciation of the world, there we may be sure that God's blessing is not bestowed.--GC 464 (1911).  {LDE 158.3} 



     I saw that God had honest children among the nominal Adventists, and the fallen churches, and ministers and people will yet be called out from these churches, before the plagues shall be poured out, and they will gladly embrace the truth. Satan knows this, and before the loud cry of the third angel, raises an excitement in these religious bodies, that those who have rejected the truth may think God is with them. He hopes to deceive the honest, and lead them to think that God is still working for the churches. But the light will shine, and every one of the honest ones will leave the fallen churches, and take their stand with the remnant.  {1SG 172.1}

[newbie]

A church that decides to employ the methods used by large, popular Sunday-keeping mega-churches often weakens its commitment to the mission and doctrines of the world church. The conferences that invite ‘experts’ from the large Sunday churches to speak to our ministers meetings may well someday regret it.

Many of the largest mega-churches have two characteristics in common.  First, they tend to be congregational in governance.  That means that the local congregation owns and operates the church.  Second, the mega-churches are for the most part doctrinly generic.  It is difficult to adapt the church growth methods of these churches without having some of their perspectives on church governance and their de-emphasis of doctrine rubbing off on us.  This influence could become fatal to the mission and mandate of our church.

[Ed Sutton]

The Millerites assumed Earth was the Sanctuary - that was the only weak link in the message. 

The Pharisees assumed the Second Advent Prophecies and First  Advent Prophecies - all were the realistic expectation of Messiah combined in their day - they did not look for a two stage sequence - so created requirements that even God was not intending to fulfill between AD 27 - and AD 33.

The SDA powers that measure, analyze, and command and expect results - assume - Church growth means - Numbers first and foremost .  They ignore the great Controversy / Investigative Judgment / John ch 17 paradigm that God follows.  It has never been Numbers first and foremost, it is Christ IN YOU the hope of glory, character ( thoughts + feelings ), heart work,  The Gold tried in the fire + The White Raiment + The Eye Salve, the upper room preparation & receiving the Early & Latter Rain & seal of the Living God .    Then and only then - God draws the multitudes into a locally purified SDA Church. 

Gideon wanted numerically better odds in battle, God sent the newlyweds and frightened home, Gideon complained it was too big of a cut, God reduced them down to 300 at the brook, now God could add unseen angels from His army into Gideon's band of 300. 

Growth - we look at it wrong, we always assume numbers equals growth.   

The gospel net God uses brings in bad fish and good fish but the ration is never bad for the local church God weighs each fish's impact in the local church.   

But let Satan use his nets and methods of fishing, and the ratio and intentions are reversed, more bad fish come in than good, lots more, and they are weighed to their capacity for evil in God's house.

Two groups of SDA's just before the Seven Last Plagues when SDA probation is long over - which side won which side lost ?

: Numbers numbers numbers just for the sake of numbers raked in by Babylon 101 Nets Inc - subsidiary of Rick Warren Enterprises INC.

:  Christ IN YOU the hope of glory, character ( thoughts + feelings ), heart work,  The Gold tried in the fire + The White Raiment + The Eye Salve, Commandments of God + Faith of Jesus & RBF Message understood and received and lived and taught, the upper room preparation & receiving the Early & Latter Rain & seal of the Living God .

To whom was the door opened, to whom was it shut ?     Who won, who lost ?

hint : Genesis 49:10  The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

Daniel 2:43  And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

4BC - S.D.A. Bible Commentary Vol. 4 (1955)  Daniel
43. Iron and Clay--Mingled Churchcraft and Statecraft.--We have come to a time when God's sacred work is represented by the feet of the image in which the iron was mixed with the miry clay. God has a people, a chosen people, whose discernment must be sanctified, who must not become unholy by laying upon the foundation wood, hay, and stubble. Every soul who is loyal to the commandments of God will see that the distinguishing feature of our faith is the seventh-day Sabbath. If the government would honor the Sabbath as God has commanded, it would stand in the strength of God and in defense of the faith once delivered to the saints. But statesmen will uphold the spurious sabbath, and will mingle their religious faith with the observance of this child of the papacy, placing it above the Sabbath which the Lord has sanctified and blessed, setting it apart for man to keep holy, as a sign between Him and His people to a thousand generations. The mingling of churchcraft and statecraft is represented by the iron and the clay. This union is weakening all the power of the churches. This investing the church with the power of the state will bring evil results. Men have almost passed the point of God's forbearance. They have invested their strength in politics, and have united with the papacy. But the time will come when God will punish those who have made void His law, and their evil work will recoil upon themselves (MS 63, 1899).  {4BC 1168.8} {15MR 39.1 - .2 } 

[ColporteurK]

As long as we remember that the church will go through and that the church that goes through is the same church that went through the dark ages we will not become discouraged. What I mean by the church that went through is those who were faithful to the knowledge they had and not those who necessarily carried the title and banner. While I am not into nondenominationalism I am also not into titles without faithfulness. The Jews had the title and where did that title get them ? I am certainly not against a title. My ministry has a legal title as that is necessary. However, that title in and of itself means nothing. What matters is what goes on underneath the title, in the ministry, in the homes, etc.etc.. Our church to a large extent in the NAD and developed countries is following in the footsteps of ancient Israel. National pride and a lack of conversion within the system leading to the system following the ways of the world is all too obvious. The church that goes through will look eons different than what we seen now in Amercia. When the war in the world and in the church hits its pinnacle the collateral damage will be huge. The church that goes through will be wearing bandages and scars. It will not be wearing this pretty royal wardrobe with the so often attitude of pomp that we see now. It will be battle weary and made up of many hitherto fore unknown soldiers. Former Lutherans, Catholics, Muslims, and atheists will make up the ranks as well as some that have been in the ranks for many years. The ranks will be made up of many of the most unlikely like the first 12. Those who are truly kingly will look like lowly soldiers however terrible as an army with banners.